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AN INTERVIEW
A: Before 1988 there was a saying about the Chinese media: 'There is only one pen for all newspapers; there are only two voices on the radio, one is male, another is female.' Although Deng Xiaoping said he was going to 'open' China in 1983, it took until 1992 for most Chinese to start believing this was happening. It was unbelievably difficult for the
'brave' people in the media who were trying to improve and open the
'closed culture' in the late 1980s because: They therefore invited people from the military to apply for jobs because they had received a good education for the purposes of national defence. I had been working as a civilian in the military for about twelve years by then, so I took the examinations. Fourteen of us were selected out of 4,000. I was so nervous about how to present
my new kind of programme that I decided it should go out in the middle
of the night, between ten and twelve. Since 90% of the listeners were
peasants, I reasoned that they would go to bed very early and not many
people would listen to me. But, in fact, only three weeks later, I was
receiving about 100 letters a day. Q: After a while you decided to devote your late-night radio programme 'Words on the Night Breeze' to discussing women's issues. How did you get permission to start taking telephone calls live on air? A: I couldn't have a call-in programme
for the first two years, because: But later, when my programme became popular
and I had gained more experience, China was opening up more and more
quickly and so it became possible and I was given a lot of support. Q: There were many rules about what could and could not be said on the radio. How did you stop people discussing forbidden subjects and did anything ever go wrong? A: During the time I made my programme, there were four kinds of 'human need' that couldn't be discussed: religion, the legal system, freedom of the press and sexuality. In our studio, there was a short delay between the speaker's voice on the phone coming in and reaching the airwaves. If someone started to say something about one of the above topics, we could cut them off and the presenter would then make an excuse about there being a problem with the line. But it is human to make mistakes. I had a heart-stopping experience once when a caller managed to talk on air about homosexuality without being cut off. You can read about it in chapter seven of my book. Q: You come from a country where freedom of thought has often been suppressed. What gave you the inspiration and the courage to try to understand women's lives? A: My painful childhood, which is
in chapter twelve of my book, was the first step for me to understand
other women's suffering. The giving, loving, trusting and struggling
of lots of Chinese women moved and encouraged me. In 1992 I went to a small village. It was so poor that a family with five people was only supported by two chickens. Every day they put aside two eggs to exchange for food, clothes etc. When I arrived there, they didn't give me any words or smiles, but they killed one of their two chickens for a meal to welcome me! I don't know how many people in this world could give half their property in thanks. In 1996 I went back to see them again. They had become very rich because of the 'opening' policy, and then they gave me twenty chickens and 100 eggs when I left. But, that the chicken meal of 1992 can never be repeated in my life. Q: Although women work alongside men in China, they still hold a very subordinate role in society. Why is this? A: I don't think it is only in China where women hold a very subordinate role in society at all. As I have travelled to promote my book in seventeen countries, people from the developed world have told me that women there have the same problems and a similar position to Chinese women. I think we have to know that, in the human world, we still stay in the male power period even though it was a long long time ago when 'father' replaced 'mother' power, because most of human life still depends on physical work. China is a little bit 'slow' compared to other developed countries, because we have just passed through about 100 years of civil war and religion has been suppressed. China has built up some top modern cities like Shanghai in the last fifteen years; therefore I do think that Chinese women might catch up with you very soon. Q: In many societies, women form support groups and talk to in China, women are more silent about their lives and do not confide in each other. Often daughters know very little about their mothers' lives. Why is this? A: My personal opinion is that this stems back to the fact that, in our 3,000 years of recorded history, there has not been a stable centre of culture and power. Chinese people treated their rulers as their God. When the ruler changed, bibles had to be changed, and the system as well; and millions of people paid with their lives for their wrong choices and words, just like during the religious wars in European history. Think how frightened people are when they are not sure or have lost their God. This is why many Chinese find it difficult to trust each other, and how can you open yourself to other people without trusting? Chinese women don't want to talk about
themselves today because it is too painful to talk about the past, just
as in Germany and Japan, after World War 2: conversation between the
generations was completely cut off by silence, because those mothers
who had lost their men in the war couldn't open the painful memories
and face their children's questions: 'What did my father do in the war?'
Finally, it seems to me that, in the rest of the world, it is only in the last fifty years or so that women have had the right and the chance to talk, since before they had to spend all the time working in their houses while men found space in pubs for talking and drinking. This is why I don't think that women are the big talkers. Western grandmothers could confirm this. Q: How did you persuade women to trust you and to talk to you about their personal lives? A: I told them about my own life as a daughter and a mother and let them feel that I was one of them. I spent time staying with women in poor countryside, with no education and experience of modern life, and humbly learned from them how to manage a different kind of daily life. As they taught me, they told me the 'how, where, why, who and what' of their personal lives. Listening helped me gain a lot trusted friends.
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Q: What was the most difficult situation you faced in your search to bring the hidden lives of China's women to public attention? A: Lots of things were difficult. It was hard to control my emotions. Some stories, like those in chapters one, eleven and fifteen of my book, I couldn't present on air at all. Whenever I came back from interviews in the poor countryside, I could hardly speak. I couldn't forget about the lives of those women, who lived as if it was 500 years ago. I couldn't answer people's questions about my childhood either. Also, as I told you before, four major topics could not be discussed, but they are very basic human needs which are central to our lives. Therefore it was very difficult for me to talk with people directly about these important things. I had to find other ways to explain my opinions on these subjects. I had to face and struggle with lots of uneducated people who thought that a woman should be part of man's property according to traditional rules, and that I shouldn't talk with their women about freedom, education etc. This included some women. Sometimes I got letters with knives and bullets. Q: Is it difficult for you personally to listen to so many painful stories? How do you cope with this? A: I don't think I can cope with it for ever. I can control myself in the daytime with smiling and peaceful mind, but I always lose this in the night when I am woken up by dreams which are full of women's stories and my childhood. This is part of the reason why I left China. In 1997 I was having to take eight sleeping tablets to get to sleep. Q: You left China six years ago, but you often go back to visit. How is life changing in China at the moment and is it any better for women? A: Yes, there is a huge change in China. Last spring I saw a kind of relaxation and happiness in the eyes of many Chinese women for the first time. Although most Chinese women's position is still very low, fewer are facing death than before, even though the suicide rate of Chinese women is still among the highest in the world. This spring I went back to China again and I saw a peasant standing in front of his very poor 'grass house' talking on a mobile phone! He told me that he was getting to know the world through communcation. I do believe that, when people are educated and have access to enough information, they will know how to treat women better because they will find a woman is part of their human life not property. Q: Your book has now been published in many countries in twenty-seven languages. Over the last ten months you have visited seventeen countries to talk about it. Have you found that women's lives are very different in the West? A: Yes. Western women have had something
that the Chinese never had before the 1990s: freedom of religion,
freedom of press, a dependable legal system and sexual education.
Power over the lives of Chinese women was with their men. Because
of this, Chinese culture became very 'closed', 'hidden' and 'negative'.
Before 1992 the heavy pressure of tradition meant that Chinese women
lived in a kind of society without smiling, warm and positive words,
even human touch like a hug. The lives of most Western women were
made more tolerable by men's hugs, kisses, flowers, beautiful Many of the Chinese women who live overseas can't understand why so many Western women like to complain about their 'perfect lives'. I think this is because we have a different standard of good life. Q: What kind of responses have you had to your book from readers? A: I have been extremely moved by the reactions of readers to my book. Many people have written to me to say how much the book touched them and resonated with their lives. I received from one woman a twenty-two page letter describing how, at the age of seven, she was sexually abused by a man as she walked the short distance from her grandmother's house to home. She was thirty-nine and had never told anyone about this experience, not even her husband. She told me how, although she had four sons, she stood in front of the mirror every day and said 'I hate men'. When she had finished reading my book she felt she could come out of her suffering corner now after forty-two years. But my book has also moved men. At one of my talks in America a man stood up at the end and said that my book had taught him that we should take notice of the unhappy woman sitting next to us and offer her our support and love.
A: I finished my second book Sky Burial half a year ago. It is about a Chinese woman who spent thirty-four years in Tibet for searching her missing husband. Her husband was a military doctor, who was sent to Tibet after their wedding in the 1950s. I got this story in 1994 through a listener of my radio programme. When I sat there face to face with her, I couldn't believe how lucky I was to be hearing the whole story since I remembered hearing parts of it in the street when I was little girl. Q: In your many years as a journalist in China, what was your happiest moment? A: Being able to kiss and hug my
son Panpan when I got back from doing an interview far away. Showing to my friends some of the women's knowledge that I had learned from women all over China, such as cooking, sewing and shoe making. Last but not least, I have to say, that one of my happiest moments was finding a "real" toilet when I was interviewing in the countryside! At the moment, I'd like to say, I am very happy because I can tell people what I have learned on my feet and in my heart about Chinese women's lives. Q: What do you feel makes a 'good woman'? A: In 1995 I asked Chinese men the
following questions on air: I got almost a thousand letters three
weeks later about these two questions. But there were fewer than twenty
who said they had had good women in their lives. I was very shocked
by the views of Chinese men. In their letters, they gave me five points
for making a good woman: I just can't imagine there is any woman who could match this standard of 'good woman' at all! Of the Chinese women in my book, none of them is good in the traditional way. But I think they are so good because they have tried very hard to give, love and care for their families and other people! Q: Do you feel you betrayed listeners of 'Words on the Night Breeze' when you left China? A: No, because they are always with me when I came to London and travel in other countries where I go for them.
If you have any questions to ask Xinran please email xinran@randomhouse.co.uk. Xinran will answer a selection of the questions by the beginning of September. |
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